Today Show Foreclosure Video: Is It Wrong To Strip Everything From Your House In Revenge Against Your Bank?
Foreclosure Stripping...what are your thoughts?
This clip infuriates me. The behavior exhibited from the foreclosed-upon houseowners is criminal (but they'll never be charged), and is selfish beyond pale. The bailout culture has become so prevalent that it has created an avenue for rationalizing even the most egregious self-comportment.
"The banks have screwed us all so why can't I screw my bank?"
I don't have a moral problem with a typical debtor's revolt as it is usually in response to a unilateral, usurious hike of the interest rate on one's credit cards. But to me personally, what we see in this video, is something entirely different.
If you entered into a mortgage contract willingly and without coercion, do you have a right to destroy the property on your way out the door?
Let me hear your opinions. The clip runs approximately 2 minutes.
Watch (video is below)
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Oct 3, 2009 at 11:14 AM
Reader Comments (31)
http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/54930
Important read.
I think I just had a mini-stroke.
I have to admit my admiration for the reporter doing the interview. How he refrained from hitting the son of a bitch is beyond my ken.
Rights are guaranteed in the Constitution and the Supreme Court interprets the Constitution.
State laws are passed and state law enforcement agencies try to enforce them. Lawyers and judges determine legality and illegality of individual and group behavior and sometimes the State and United States Supreme Courts rule on the Constitutionality of laws.
Legislatures write the laws and its no coincidence that most politicians are lawyers.
The behavior of the homeowners is clearly illegal. I doubt if any Supreme Court would rule that it isn't. I doubt if many politicians will try to change the law to let them strip their houses either.
Many people have argued that the American legal system is broken but their arguments always seem to fall on deaf ears. Maybe people can't hear any more because of all the loud music.
Both the legal and health care system are broken for at least the bottom 75% of Americans. The top 1% love it. They own 40% or the wealth while the bottom 50% own 3% of the wealth. That is not a typo. I wish it was.
You will start to see these people going to jail when the politicians think it feasible politically. The poor are always ready for a revolution and if the rich didn't have thousands of years experience suppressing them it would happen tomorrow. But they do and it wont.
You nailed it. If Goldman Sachs doesn't have to take responsibility for their own mistakes, then why should Joe House Hog in Miami? I tell you, I will have a very hard time paying my taxes next spring. Really, really hard. I'm trying to think of some way to fuck around with them, without going to jail. Any ideas? Maybe I'll actually write the check, but tell every congressman, politician, bureaucrat and journalist I can think of that I'm not paying my taxes this year and here's why. I wouldn't do what the people in this clip are doing, but Miami has a great reputation for strippers, so strip away! It really doesn't bother me one bit. And when you consider that these houses are under water by 30% or more on average, does it really make all that much difference? I believe almost absolutely in property rights, but that's not what's at stake here.
I agree 100%, actually. But what we really need is a news segment showing Lloyd Blankfein cashing his paycheck, or Goldman's CFO going over their books showing exactly where the $13B "from AIG" (i.e. the US Treasury) went. Or maybe a segment with Ken Lewis showing how they trade crap assets for cash from the Fed and then go buy Treasuries, get paid interest by the taxpayer, and then bank the spread. Yeah, I agree. Stealing is wrong, even if you are as stupid as Chuck Prince or Joe Cassano or the lady from Miami who took out that "ridiculous" mortgage. Like I say, I wouldn't strip the house, but then again, I didn't buy a house I couldn't afford at prices I knew were way too high. But on the third hand, this kind of crap shouldn't be at all surprising when you live in a country run by the likes of Barack Obama and George Bush, for the benefit of people like Jamie Dimon and Vikram Pandit. Mary G, I suggest you touch up what you wrote above and send it to the CEO's of Goldman, BofA, Citi, Wells Fargo, JP Morgan, et al. and also send it to the Treasury Secretary and the Chairman of the Federal Reserve -- they're the ones who are stealing on a MASSIVE scale and getting away with it. They're the ones who haven't learned the kind of lessons I teach my children every day.
Do you think we could get a tea-partyesque movement together to stop millions from paying taxes in April? There is enough time. The problem would be verifying that others are really not paying. You wouldn't want to join this movement and then discover everyone else chickened out.
I have heard that tax paying is not actually mandated by law. You can find lots of stuff about it on the internet. Hmmm....
I say we talk to the Tea Party people and to the C4L folks - they've got the mailing lists and phone numbers to get the message out. I'm serious about this. I was talking about this back in March/April, but there just wasn't time for people to get on board. Only now are the bailouts starting to get some MSM coverage (Dylan Ratigan, e.g.). But we really need to show them who has the power. They just don't get it. We could hook in on the "I'm not reading the bill because it's too complicated" theme, too. I mean, how the hell are you being "represented" if no one's reading the laws they're voting for?
The thing about not paying taxes vs. chickening out is that even if people delayed paying by a month or so, it would still send a message, I think. Even if there were "only" a million or so not paying their taxes, it would take a LONG time for the IRS to deal with those cases.
I'm thinkng out loud here, but I am serious. Let's make it our Fall 2009 Project -- organize a tax revolt. Put it on our calenders, right next to "Johnny soccer practice" and "Suzie buying lunch."
They do not get you immediately...it takes a few years before the letters would intensify...now a tax payment delay could really send a message and would pose no risk to you...there is a penalty assessed but you could 'protest' by not paying the penalty...after all as part of the AIG bailout, there were original penalties built into the first deal that were scrapped when they re-negotiated...
So you could make a legit case not to have to pay the penalty...not legally but symbollically...and they might just give up trying to collect it if enough people did it...so not paying in protest for let's say 12 months, could really send a message and pose no risk to you...but i'm just thinking out loud and am not advocating that anyone do this...too much legal risk...
As for the Constitutionality of a federal income tax, there is a lot of interesting history there...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sixteenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/03/world/europe/03edelman.html?em
READ THIS...awesome and inspiring...i've often wondered what it would have felt like to a teenage kid in the warsaw ghetto...
It's nice that everybody is so concerned about following the law. I mean, what with congress persons not even READING the bills they pass, that sticky subject of the Federal Reserve being unconstitutional, and so many unenumerated powers being wielded these days and all....
First of all, I will shed no tears for banks. They were the ones who decided it was OK to deviate from traditional lending standards. This kind of behavior basically didn't happen in the old school "20% down" world. The borrower had skin in the game, and even in default, could probably walk away with something by selling the house. All this changes when you sign up people who never saved 5 grand in their lives for $500,000 mortgages. And let's not forget, these people drove up prices on everyone, so even responsible people had to borrow more or live smaller.
So the real estate bubble was driven by jack-asses who thought they were big time because some mortgage broker told them they could borrow half a million. Now they're finding out they ain't so special after all and they're pissed, blaming others and acting out. This can't surprise anyone, can it?
I see the reverberations of this everywhere I go. People acting like douche-bags at children's soccer games, Wal-mart and everywhere else. I'll swear to you that I can pick out the people who can't pay their bills and want to make everyone else miserable because of it. And understand, their hardship is the direct result of their own arrogance (the life they could afford just wasn't good enough for them). When the numbers get big enough, what was once an aberration becomes "normal."
And the worst part is I don't think this problem is going away anytime soon....
I feel your pain, really I do. A couple towns over from me, there's a town that's got a rather large undesirable element in it. Whenever I drive through, the cops always have some Mom in a mini-van pulled over. Know why? Because those tickets get paid. They know the meth-head with the unregistered Dodge Daytona ain't paying (plus he's dangerous) so they leave him alone. It's so unfair, but I'll bet those cops would taser a Mom in front of her kids if she tried to call them on it.
To be sure, I'm not one of the goofballs who believe that individual citizens are obligated to do the "honorable" thing and stay in a house that they can't afford and are legally allowed to walk away from. Corporate citizens give a rat's ass about concepts like honor; they'll do every last thing that's permissible in a contract, without apology. Turnabout is fair play.
But vandalism isn't, and the pet abandonment gives us insight into what low-lives some of the "little guys" are. "Big guys" don't have a monopoly on dickery.
I think we gotta cut and paste some of these on different posts. I want to put my two cents in but don't know where to start?
I have a problem multi-tasking...sorry. Oh and by the way, your site is my home page now.
So it is hard to find fault with the anger people feel with being scammed. And the problem is they were scammed from the beginning. The off balance sheet banking was allowed by the Bank of International Settlements, and the scam was brought to our shores by the Fed looking the other way, as the BIS tool that our central bank is.
Itwas no random "black swan" but rather a cold calculated way to scam the average Joe in the US and in other parts of the world, with tight money and stealing from the treasury to follow. It is almost patriotic to trash your home given the fact that the US has been scammed and robbed by international bankers: http://bank-abuse.com/TowerofBasel.html
I agree with you, even if I didn't make that clear. My point was these people were always assholes, but the banks shot their egos up with steroids five years ago, thus creating a race of "super-assholes" who can't pay their bills. To me, the problems they create for the banks are secondary to the problems they're creating for society in general.
Feel free to correct my German, but wouldn't this give us our version of the Superman -- the "Uber-Arschloch"?
What's your view on our little "tax delay" idea? I think SNK's idea of filing for extensions borders on brilliant. (My mom says my aunt has filed for an extension every year for the last twenty, so I know it's no big deal.) Imagine if there were suddenly 3 million extra people filing for extensions. A well connected media campaign around and after April 15 would be essential. I'm not sure about beforehand. Maybe surprise would be better so's they don't go changin' the laws on us. Any ideas? Anyone? Ken, Spidey? I say we pitchfok 'em where it really hurts, even if we miss out on the fun of getting tazed or shot.
Who here works with C4L -- allie, SNK? What do you think their take on this would be? I think it could be done, one way or another. We should also think about putting our Congress people on notice. Make 'em a little nervous when they get hundreds of "I might not even pay my taxes next year!" letters. We might even make some cautious allies, esp among the Republicans (they're idiots, so let's make them useful).
I'm serious about this. I say we take it as far as we can -- not that we'd break any laws, of course. But it could be a powerful way to send a message. Who's up for giving it the old college try?
James H--I'm sure C4L would not do anything to jeopardize it's credibility and/or antagonize the government. They focus on public education and influencing legislation via communication with members of Congress. Free speech (i.e. writing to representatives and expressing opinions at legal assemblies) is completely different from organizing a tax filing disruption, legal as it may be. There are many other groups/people out there, though. Glenn Beck, anyone?
I think it should be about sending a message, not about 'not paying taxes' (we will be paying them anyway, sure as death). We need to say "We are trusting you to use our money carefully but you are not. We are concerned. Get your bleeping act together!"
Absolutely. That's definitely the hook we need. I'll have more to say later.
I reluctantly tell you that although a nice guy (really, I am), I was born with an evil, criminal mastermind brain. I mean, if I had been born into the bin Laden family, everyone would be calling Osama "Fredo." The plans I have for 100% legal, civil disobedience that would really, really disrupt things could have disastrous unintended consequences. I was going to write an article called "Project Mayhem for Dummies", but what the hey, here goes:
1) Demand payment in Nickels from your bank - the Nickel has a melt value 87% face value, so its legal tender now that will be a safe store of value (as metal) should the dollar collapse continue (which it will).
2) Remove your saving from the bank - get a safe deposit box, cash out your account, walk ten feet and put it in the box. You weren't earning any interest anyway, and with the way fractional reserve banking works, the bank will have to shrink it's balance sheet by ten times the amount you withdrew. $100,000 in a deposit box means the bank has to call $1,000,000 in loans.
3) If you are one of the Americans "circling the drain" and will almost certainly be filing bankruptcy in the next couple years, max out your credit buying gold and platinum (very portable wealth), then stiff everybody. Walstreetpro2 deserves credit for that one.
4) Close your trading account and take your money "off the grid" using the methods described above.
5) Now, if steps 1-4 are actually going to happen, it would make sense to cash out your retirement funds, and pay the taxes BEFORE the shit hits the fan. Because once it does credit will dry up (even for Uncle Sam) and taxes will go through the roof!
To me, tax revolt's not a good solution, because the government doesn't even collect enough now to cover it's spending. The above is a plan for "deficit revolt."
Oh and my caveat for all this is that things will get very ugly, very quickly, but it may be our best chance to get back on track.
Enforce the laws. Make these companies accountable for their actions to the homeowners and then make the homeowners accountable, as well. Seem like the one with the most money gets the laws enfored anymore. Not what the law says or about what is right.
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