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Monday
Sep062010

PUT DOWN THE FLAME: Gen. Petraeus Speaks Out On Quran Burning: Freedom Of Speech Vs. Troop Safety

Judaism and Buddhism come from the Devil. (Terry Jones)

 

A very interesting situation is developing.  Florida pastor Terry Jones, with a whopping congregation of 50, plans to burn the Quran on September 11.  Protests are growing all over Afghanistan and the rest of the Muslim world.  And tonight, something extremely unusual happened.  Gen. Petraeus in a incredibly rare move, spoke out publicly on a matter of politics, and asked Jones not to conduct his scheduled burning, claiming it would significantly hamper mission efforts and troop security.

My views are without complexity.  Fighting over religion is nonsense.  Soldiers' lives matter.  Don't burn the Quran.

 

 

KABUL—The top U.S. commander in Afghanistan said the planned burning of Qurans on Sept. 11 by a small Florida church could put the lives of American troops in danger and damage the war effort.

Gen. David Petraeus said the Taliban would exploit the demonstration for propaganda purposes, drumming up anger toward the U.S. and making it harder for allied troops to carry out their mission of protecting Afghan civilians.

"It could endanger troops and it could endanger the overall effort," Gen. Petraeus said in an interview. "It is precisely the kind of action the Taliban uses and could cause significant problems. Not just here, but everywhere in the world we are engaged with the Islamic community."

Hundreds of Afghans attended a demonstration in Kabul on Monday to protest the plans of Florida pastor Terry Jones, who has said he will burn copies of Islam's holy book to mark the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks. Afghan protesters chanted "death to America," and speakers called on the U.S. to withdraw its troops. Some protesters threw rocks at a passing military convoy.

Military officials fear the protests will likely spread to other Afghan cities, especially if the event is broadcast or ends up on Internet video.

Mr. Jones, head of the 50-member Dove World Outreach Center in Gainesville, Fla., said in a statement that "We understand the General's concerns. We are sure that his concerns are legitimate." Nonetheless, he added, "We must send a clear message to the radical element of Islam. We will no longer be controlled and dominated by their fears and threats."

Mr. Jones has been denied a permit for the demonstration, but has said he plans to go forward with the protest.

Rev. Stephanie Sapp, spokeswoman for the center, said no one from the Pentagon or other federal agencies had expressed concern or asked that the event be canceled. She did say that the Federal Bureau of Investigation had discussed security measures.

Pentagon officials said they were not aware that any Defense officials have reached out directly to Mr. Jones. But military officers said they hoped that Gen. Petraeus's statement—an unusual move since military commanders rarely get involved in politics—would convince Mr. Jones to change his plans.

Gen. Petraeus declined to elaborate on the nature of the threats or violence that could occur, but westerners in Afghanistan have been warned away from restaurants and other public places amid the rising tensions.

Other senior military leaders echoed Gen. Petraeus commentsMonday. Lt. Gen. William Caldwell, who oversees the effort to train Afghan security forces said he was informed of the planned Florida protests several days ago by a senior minister in the Afghan government.

 

 

Video:  Demonstrations in Kabul

Honest question -- Do Muslims burn the bible in protest?  I've seen flag-burning, but not the bible.  Though I'm not religious, I'm always looking for the hypocrisy angle.  And if Muslims routinely burn the bible in protests, that would make their complaints about Koran burning borderline irrelevant.

 

 

 

 

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Reader Comments (77)

Gomp...i want to hear your thoughts given your military service...
Sep 6, 2010 at 11:11 PM | Registered CommenterDailyBail
Just for my notes, when did General Betray Us (Under Bush) become General Petraeus the next President (under Obama). Now I see the media kissing his ass and talking him up as the most qualified military leader ever. Just curious.

As for this story, why is is news? Iran is about to give 99 lashes and then stone to death a woman for adultery. Where is the balance?
Sep 6, 2010 at 11:15 PM | Unregistered CommenterZ
What about the bank guy in Germany that is trying to convince the Germans to not follow the French mulsim path. He is making a lot more waves.
Sep 6, 2010 at 11:16 PM | Unregistered CommenterZ
i've seen both those stories...and neither is as interesting to me...here we have free speech vs. troop security...and i want to know how other people feel about it...

Your outrage over the iran lashing seems misplaced...lashings of this sort occur all over muslim world...but you attempt to use these stories to push for destroying all these countries...you're a warmonger just like our presidents...

What's your favorite line again...Bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb bomb Iran...
Sep 6, 2010 at 11:22 PM | Registered CommenterDailyBail
I have explained this to you...think of the muslims as borg...here is a video...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZEJ4OJTgg8
Sep 6, 2010 at 11:32 PM | Unregistered CommenterZ
Answer this question...after what petraeus said tonight, burn the koran or not..?..
Sep 6, 2010 at 11:43 PM | Registered CommenterDailyBail
Would they be infringing on the rights of others?
Would it be nonviolent and on their own property?
Will they pay for any needed security?
Did they buy the books?
Are there any fire codes being violated?

If yes to all the above, then I guess they have the right to burn their property on their property.
Sep 7, 2010 at 12:04 AM | Unregistered CommenterZ
Like I said, it sounds like a waste of time but they have a right to waste their time.
Sep 7, 2010 at 12:05 AM | Unregistered CommenterZ
They used to burn Elvis and Beatles records, who cares.
Sep 7, 2010 at 12:05 AM | Unregistered CommenterZ
I didn't ask about their 1st amendment right to burn it...why don't you get the question...morally, do you think he should do it after petreaus publicly asked him not to do it...and said it would endanger the mission and troops...

You claim to support the war, then you should be concerned with the troops security and the success of the mission...and your general just said it would be a huge mistake...so your answer should be 'no'...

but since your answer is yes, in my opinion you are further exposed as a hypocrite...
Sep 7, 2010 at 12:21 AM | Registered CommenterDailyBail
Now if you don't support the war or the troops then it would not be hypocritical to say go ahead and burn the koran...but that clearly is not your position...
Sep 7, 2010 at 12:24 AM | Registered CommenterDailyBail
What if I rejected Petraeus premise, which I do.

Add to that what I have said from the beginning about all of those places, I do not think they are worth one U.S. soldiers life. No U.S. soldier should be asked to stand on the corner of Kabul and Baghdad street. We have won many wars without this type of occupying force.
Sep 7, 2010 at 12:33 AM | Unregistered CommenterZ
You're still avoiding it...the reality is we have 100k troops on the ground over there...the general attempted to demonstrate the problems that will arise as a result of the burning.,..so do you support the burning or not...take a position...
Sep 7, 2010 at 12:42 AM | Registered CommenterDailyBail
I did take a position.

Here it is again...

I would not burn the Kuran, waste of f***ing time if you ask me.
I do not see the connection between the troops safety and buring the Koran.

I would fire Petraeus and find someone who knows less Machiavelli and more Sun Tzu.
Sep 7, 2010 at 12:53 AM | Unregistered CommenterZ
The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting.
Sun Tzu
Sep 7, 2010 at 12:56 AM | Unregistered CommenterZ
Ok...i disagree with you then...you've seen the uprisings, the demonstrations...they freak out if you even look at the koran the wrong way...you read petraeu talk about the previous problems they had from just a rumor that a soldier threw a koran to the ground...it disrupted training completely...enraged the afghans they were training with...

Now, add to the equation that one of our greatest dangers over there is from the afghan troops that are supposed to be fighting with us...so desecration of the koran would naturally ,in my view, make it more likely that afghan soldiers will turn on our troops in the heat of the battle...as a revenge move...

Finally, our success there depends on support of the locals...and all of them will turn on us if jones goes ahead with his plan...

So what you're essentially saying is that all of the above is wrong...nothing bad will come of it..it won't hurt the effort or endanger our troops...and in my view that makes you crazy as a loon...
Sep 7, 2010 at 1:00 AM | Registered CommenterDailyBail
You needn't quote sun tzu or the untouchables...i'm not impressed...and it clogs the thread...now defend your statement that petraeus is wrong...

Demonstrate to me why there will be no problems for our troops...you said you disagreed with his premise...now tell me why he was wrong...
Sep 7, 2010 at 1:01 AM | Registered CommenterDailyBail
They send two planes into the WTC, one into the Pentagon and one into the ground, YOU...answer that question DB...
Sep 7, 2010 at 1:03 AM | Unregistered CommenterZ
You should really leave up my posts, Gomp will enjoy the complete text...
Sep 7, 2010 at 1:05 AM | Unregistered CommenterZ
What question...you haven't asked one...stay on point or i'll delete your drunk ass...i'm seriously tired of your bullshit...you make grand statements all over this site but you can't back them up...why is Petraeus wrong about the effect it will have on the mission and troop security...

I'm not asking why you don't like petraeus...
Sep 7, 2010 at 1:06 AM | Registered CommenterDailyBail
Because appeasement is a failed policy.

Please give my answer some consideration before you bash it...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9dXGJ2rYdA
Sep 7, 2010 at 1:18 AM | Unregistered CommenterZ
we are not debating appeasement...you said petraeus was wrong...you said burning the koran will have NO EFFECT on troup safety or mission...tell me why he is wrong about troop safety...but you won't answer because YOU HAVE NO ANSWER...same as always...instead you want to discuss whether we are using the right war strategy...that's another discussion...this one isn't over yet... why is petraeus wrong about troop safety being affected by the quran burning..
Sep 7, 2010 at 1:41 AM | Registered CommenterDailyBail
I am not a believer in radical islam but my guess is that they will not see Petraeus’ pandering as a reason to stop attacking our troops.

Let me guess, you still don't want to see my point in this.
Sep 7, 2010 at 1:52 AM | Unregistered CommenterZ
Did you like that last video, that guy has a way with words.
Sep 7, 2010 at 1:53 AM | Unregistered CommenterZ
I started this whole thing by saying that "the burning" would be just a drop in the ocean of their hate for us.
Sep 7, 2010 at 1:56 AM | Unregistered CommenterZ
Your point is on war strategy...this post is not about war strategy...this post is about what is the right thing for pastor terry jones to do now that he ahs been publicly asked bya 5 star general to politely NOT burn any korans...

You have not responded to what i wrote above...the ways in which the quran burning will hurt our troops...i laid it out in detail...
Sep 7, 2010 at 1:56 AM | Registered CommenterDailyBail
And here is that detail...

you've seen the uprisings, the demonstrations...they freak out if you even look at the koran the wrong way...you read petraeu talk about the previous problems they had from just a rumor that a soldier threw a koran to the ground...it disrupted training completely...enraged the afghans they were training with...

Now, add to the equation that one of our greatest dangers over there is from the afghan troops that are supposed to be fighting with us...so desecration of the koran would naturally ,in my view, make it more likely that afghan soldiers will turn on our troops in the heat of the battle...as a revenge move...

Finally, our success there depends on support of the locals...and many of them will turn on us if jones goes ahead with his plan...

---

If you ever answer the question directly, I will discuss war strategy...but not until you explain how petraus is wrong...
Sep 7, 2010 at 1:59 AM | Registered CommenterDailyBail
burning would be a drop in the ocean of hate for us....

---

wrong...more like a tsunami...the afghan people for the most part support us...we can't afford to lose them...and we will if jones goes through with it and posts it on youtube...
Sep 7, 2010 at 2:02 AM | Registered CommenterDailyBail
My opinion is that if it happens or if it doesn't happen, it will make no difference in the grand scheme of things. They are going to continue to force their twisted souls on us and we will continue to beat the shit out of them in the hopes that they stop. Sorry, I don't see the significance.

They could not build their victory mosque at ground zero. Would that change to course of events? No.
Sep 7, 2010 at 2:02 AM | Unregistered CommenterZ
All right at least you finally answered the question...time will tell and i bet you're wrong...if jones goes through with it, there will be serious problems...that's my predicition...

What your analysis is missing is the ENORMITY of what petraeus did tonight...this shit just never happens...commanding generals don't make public pleas on political issues back home...this is serious, petreus knows it, i know it, and you are missing it...wouldn't be the first time...

i'll be here to remind you of your mistake when the shit hits the fan over in kabul...
Sep 7, 2010 at 2:19 AM | Registered CommenterDailyBail
I personally do not believe in burning religious documents of any kind or flags unless the flag is unservicable and disposed of by proscribed methods.

Gen. Petraeus is the man on the ground, and his will on this should be followed. Terry Jones is acting like one of those armchair quarterbacks, interesting that I had just posted something about that earlier;

"and then let a bunch of armchair quarterbacks (politicians, military industrial complex, and Joe blow weebles) screw up the game. If the armchair quarterbacks have their way, the war will never end because the few are reaping fortunes off the backs of the taxpayer, while they destroy a valuable segment of our next generation profiteering."

Terry should go back to saving souls, and let the General take care of his men. If this dipshits stunt does go south, I am sure there will be a bunch of soldiers wanting to "get to know him" when they do get home.

Do not try to assume things about me or my reasoning on this please, the very fact that this is happening is horrendous to me in ways that would be hard to fathom.

This is all I will ever say on this matter.
Sep 7, 2010 at 2:57 AM | Unregistered CommenterS. Gompers
“Neither those People of the Book who disbelieve nor the idolaters would like anything good to be sent down to you from your Lord, but God chooses for His grace whoever He will: His bounty has no limits.”

2:105

Whereas Muslims were not the first nation to be given revelation from Allah, Muslims were chosen to receive His final testament until the day of judgement.

And whereas the previous nations were given responsibility to protect their own books - and failed to do so - Allah took it upon Himself to protect the noble Quran.

“We have sent down the Torah, in it is guidance and a light; the prophets who have surrendered judged with it for those who are Jews, as well as the Rabbis, and the Priests, for what they were entrusted of God's Scripture, and they were witness over...”

5:44

Vs.

“Indeed it is We who have sent down the Reminder (the Quran), and indeed it is We who will preserve it.”

15:9

So, our responsibility as Muslims is not to worry about the Quran disappearing off the face of the earth, as that won't be happening. Our responsibility is to be good representatives of the Quran by being well-mannered and to share its message with the rest of humanity, so that they can make an informed decision about Islam and Muslims.

Instead of feeling distressed by the “Burn a Quran” events being organised in some places, or reacting angrily in a way that could make matters worse, we should take positive action, by participating in the “Buy a Quran and Seerah for Libraries” project for example.

This project was launched just a couple of days ago in the city of Cambridge, and has received so much support and excitement from the Muslim community and the county Library that it could well be expanded to libraries nationwide insha’Allah.

Ramadan, the month of the Quran, is coming to an end, so don’t miss the opportunity to contribute directly by visiting the project’s website, or by sharing this information with your friends, and the one who indicates the good is like the one who does it.
Sep 7, 2010 at 5:56 AM | Unregistered Commenterkacem
Gomp...nice comment...this guy is my favorite iu football player...

Iraqi vet takes advantage of 2nd chance at Indiana

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gh_9lnL8hBX0PBu3xfBCkWKGIyCgD9HVBNG00

He is a force and will make a big impact for the hoosiers this fall...
Sep 7, 2010 at 9:53 AM | Registered CommenterDailyBail
Obama must agree with you and Petraeus or he would have been fired like the last General who talked to the media.
Sep 7, 2010 at 12:29 PM | Unregistered CommenterZ
Thanks Kacem. Please share that message with Iran.
Sep 7, 2010 at 12:32 PM | Unregistered CommenterZ
Several hundred Afghans chanting "Death to America" rallied outside a mosque in the Afghan capital on Monday to protest against an American church's plan to burn a copy of the Koran on the anniversary of the September 11 attacks.

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/22/20100906/twl-uk-afghanistan-protest-bd5ae06.html
Sep 7, 2010 at 4:14 PM | Registered CommenterDailyBail
Indonesian Muslims Protest Plans to Burn Quran

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704282504575471870674163414.html?mod=WSJ_hpp_MIDDLENexttoWhatsNewsThird

This is not going to turn out well...
Sep 7, 2010 at 4:15 PM | Registered CommenterDailyBail
As far as I know, the United States led by our fearless leader POTUS Obama is at war with Afghanistan. Obama should take those protesting and chanting “death to America” and intern them until the end of the war. You have to nip that in the bud. The Afghan people have not earned such freedoms and the protestors are inciting violence and putting our troops in danger.

You will not understand this point of view DB but please let you other readers comment on it if they wish.
Sep 7, 2010 at 4:47 PM | Unregistered CommenterZ
There are more important issues than this so I guess religious issues must be set aside first and focus on the economy.



http://www.atbail.com/
Sep 8, 2010 at 11:04 AM | Unregistered CommenterDom
You are correct Dom...but sometimes i need a break from the other reporting...i'm sure you understand...
Sep 8, 2010 at 11:07 AM | Registered CommenterDailyBail
http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/245877/burning-koran-nina-shea

Furthermore, within Islam itself, compliance with these demands would tip the balance in favor of fundamentalists and extremists, since reformers would be attacked for their views even in the relative safe haven of the West. The late Indonesian president Abdurrhaman Wahid warned that such efforts “play directly into the hands of fundamentalists, who wish to avoid all criticism of their attempts to narrow the scope of discourse regarding Islam, and to inter 1.3 billion Muslims in a narrow, suffocating chamber of dogmatism.”

If Islam, and Islam alone, were to be protected by the state from critique, an illiberal interpretation of Islam would attain a de facto privileged status in the United States. Conversely, should Christianity, Judaism, and other religions also benefit from such state protection, fundamental individual freedoms would be essentially negated.
Sep 8, 2010 at 1:47 PM | Unregistered CommenterZ
This is not going to turn out well...

DB this is going to cauz a stir for sure. Not only our troops, but all of us here in the states will be in danger too. Look at when the Great Team lose and the Riots in the streets.

Now times that times 100 million mad Muslims around the world and see what we get.... One man could eazyly start the Holly War of all times this weekend. Who could blame them.

Turn it around once and see what happens. Look at that "Nut Job" that stabed that cabby in NY just becouse he was a Muslim. What ever they do do to us, many in our country would do the same if it was turned around.

This is a Ticking Time Bomb, for sure. Anyone that gos there to watch it happen, or cover the story, better be ready to die wile there. The Muslims have every right to defend their Bible, as we do ours.

I would get out of the aera and be watching the waters off the coast real close. This will drive a stake right into the Muslims harts, all Muslims, not just the bad ones killing people. Most people here in America dont evan know where their Bible is, much less know whats on the inside.

Your right Steve, nothing is going to be good about this Saterday. Where are the "Hells Angels" when we need them. Mr. Jones would neaver again be able to pick up a Muslim Bible, much less burn one. Its like Jones has a death wish and he wants it live on all net works. He may get his wish.
Sep 8, 2010 at 4:38 PM | Unregistered CommenterTexas Dar
I will wear your birth certificate on my head for a year...

You pull it out and I'll put in on...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwqZOwigGeA
Sep 8, 2010 at 5:28 PM | Unregistered CommenterZ
What if they told your sister, wife or mother to eat spaghetti in a burka...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dG_xHi7E5OQ
Sep 8, 2010 at 5:30 PM | Unregistered CommenterZ
Check out Obama baby at a minute in...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGHcwkkTWdo

Funny stuff...
Sep 8, 2010 at 5:41 PM | Unregistered CommenterZ
"Friendship with dogs is a blind imitation of the West," he was quoted as saying in Javan daily. "There are lots of people in the West who love their dogs more than their wives and children."

Hmmmm, think of the irony...

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE65I0M220100619
Sep 8, 2010 at 5:49 PM | Unregistered CommenterZ
Oh the Irony...

Dogs the western world has trained to sniff out bombs that may have been planted by angry muslims must be sensitive to islam and its religious purity by wearing booties and refraining from drooling. Bad dog!!!.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMe31Zebo6c
Sep 8, 2010 at 6:00 PM | Unregistered CommenterZ
Is Bo Obama a muslim?

In today's political climate, the distinction between the Portuguese and Spanish Water Dogs is probably of particular importance, since the other name for the Spanish Water Dog is the Andalusian Turk, and as we all know, al-Andalus is the name that the Muslims called Iberia when it was under their dominion. It is quite possible that the Obamas bought a Muslim dog and the whole Portuguese thing is a smokescreen.

http://gotmedieval.blogspot.com/2009/04/obamas-dog-crypto-muslim.html
Sep 8, 2010 at 6:03 PM | Unregistered CommenterZ

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