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Elizabeth Warren Makes Geithner Squirm Over AIG Counterparty Payments To Goldman Sachs

Dr. Warren asks simply:

  • Where did the money go?

She's referring to the $170 billion handed to AIG.  Now watch Geithner squirm.

We know where Elizabeth Warren was going with the line of questioning, and it was all about the $13 billion Government Sachs got out the back door of AIG.  Goldman and others were not mentioned specifically, but Dr. Warren framed the question so perfectly as to leave no doubt who benefited (to the tune of 100 cents on the dollar) from the taxpayer on AIG's counterparty payouts.

Warren asks the auto bondholder vs. AIG CDS counterparties question:

Turbo says:

  • "You've had your whole life to study this and think it through so you know more about this than anybody.." 

But it wasn't a compliment. Fun to watch him squirm.  Still infuriating that he won't answer the freaking question.  Warren says:

  • "Are you saying that you couldn't find a way to pay less than 100 cents on the dollar [with the banks], but since you could find a way with the auto industry you did [pay less than 100 cents on the dollar]?"

Turbo responds:

  • "Of course not, I mean we woulda done that in a second if we coulda done that..."

Ultimately, he swung around to the old standby:

  • We were working to save the financial system and bring stability to the system... and if Goldman et al. didn't get 100 cents on the dollar, well.... it would have hurt Main St. enormously, blah blah blah it was very complex, blah blah blah And we had to make a .... (wait for it)... judgement. So piss off...

Just before that, EW asked whether Treasury and the Fed were in contact with AIG counterparties before the taxpayer CDS payout.  It got super duper snippy at that point:

  • "In contact about what?"  "What are you getting at?"  "I was at the Fed, you know, not at Treasury.."

I think he even resorted to using the word "premise" -- but he couldn't find a nail to hang it on.  Warren pushed him, and he just kept squirming.  Next time, try using two or three nails, Ms. Warren.

That's an exact transcription above, but I can't tell if Timmy said "No, it's not the case that we couldn't figure out how to pay less than 100 cents on the dollar," or if he said "Yes, we couldn't figure out how to do anything but give Goldman, UBS and SocGen 100 cents on the dollar."

So which is it Timmy, are you a dumbass who's never heard of negotiating, or did you just make a "judgement" to sidestep congress and give away loads of taxpayer money for free?

Well, which is it punk?



Warren grills Geithner.


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Reader Comments (69)

Yes DB...That is MY middle finger and it STILL points in whatever general direction Timmmaaayyy is standing in......However, it is usually NORTH of me here in GA......AB
Sep 11, 2009 at 6:35 PM | Unregistered CommenterAin't Bullshittin'
Yes, credit to AB for the "#1 fan" comment -- I literally laughed out loud when I read that yesterday. Hell, I'meven laughing about it right now.
Sep 11, 2009 at 6:44 PM | Unregistered CommenterJames H
AB...Missed putting that in...my bad...now corrected.
Sep 11, 2009 at 7:08 PM | Registered CommenterDailyBail
I think a reasonable judgement would be to get some honest people to go through this mess. And then we could put Timmy, Henery, Ben, Alan and a whole bunch of Wall Street and the big wheel banker folks in jail. I can't believe there are people sitting in prison for larceny that comes nowhere near what these crooks pulled off and now they are living large. All the power in the world and all our money in their pockets. They should study history, if you push people to far they usually take the pushers over the edge with them, one way or another.
Sep 11, 2009 at 8:05 PM | Unregistered CommenterSagebrush

Those are some sage comments. I think Grandmaster Melle Mel had something to say along these lines:

Don't push me cause I'm close to the edge
I'm trying not to lose my head
It's like a jungle sometimes it makes me wonder
How I keep from goin' under

Sep 11, 2009 at 8:25 PM | Unregistered CommenterJames H
Dr. Warren, YOU GO GIRL!! You are my hero!

Awesome commentary, James H--and I like the new AB salute :)

Damn this is all great entertainment--too bad it's so expensive!
Sep 11, 2009 at 10:14 PM | Unregistered CommenterSonic Ninja Kitty

The LAst Days Of Lehman from the BBC...it's really a movie.
Sep 11, 2009 at 11:48 PM | Unregistered CommenterEvil Henry Paulson

here is the full Lehman movie from bbc..halfway down the page is the video player
Sep 11, 2009 at 11:50 PM | Unregistered CommenterEvil Henry Paulson
Fellow Americans

with this angry screaming message bash me or search your souls.......

Post your screams at:


Hey Barney Blood Sucking Pest and Gang



Sep 12, 2009 at 12:29 PM | Unregistered CommenterKen
Sep 12, 2009 at 4:53 PM | Unregistered CommenterJames H
So which Commander and Thief would have stopped this? The Panamanian born one, or the one we have, or the one past. All received money from the same criminal elite.
Sep 12, 2009 at 5:57 PM | Unregistered CommenterS. Gompers
Time to shut down this site, the downturn in the economy is over and Barry Soetoro is moving forward on his socialist marxist agenda. Good times for all...
Sep 12, 2009 at 7:08 PM | Unregistered CommenterGobias Bluth
My fellow Americans

I salute all who came out to the tea party in Washington and number jumped over a million. Leaderless Tea Party now needs organized leaders to lead, I urge we find a way to unite under one leadership for next move and organize National Strike .
Next step revolt against Banker thugs bail out by stopping all debt payments for 3 months. Let the revolution unfold to stage 2.

Where was MSNBC/NBC/CBS/ABC? kissing Chicago Mob Shill ass.

Tea Party Crowd Drowns Out CNN Reporter During Live Report (VIDEO)

Tea Party Express- Chicago, new Lenox, Joliet, Illinois 9-7-09,ron paul march on washington

Ron Paul: Tea Party 07

Tea Party Convoy - March on DC 9/12, Tea Party Express, American Liberty Tour

REVOLUTION BREWING - August 28 Sacramento Tea Party Express 2009

(((((WE THE PEOPLE)))) Unite and get out meet your neighbors, educate and join the revolution now
Sep 12, 2009 at 7:46 PM | Unregistered CommenterKen

Thanks for the short, coherent post. Great links. Were you there? Were Ron Paul, Daily Bail types there, or just "conservatives"? The late Sam Francis (yes, he was a racialist) theorized a coming revolution from MARS (Middle American Radicals). It never happened. Maybe it's happening now. Sure as hell looks like it. It's pretty exhilirating to hear people all over the country talking about revolution, the principles of the American Revolution, and about taking our country back. How do we keep this from beccoming a gift to the hopelessly corrupt GOP leadership?
Sep 12, 2009 at 8:05 PM | Unregistered CommenterJames H
Fellow Americans

American Tea Party Anthem (with words) by Lloyd Marcus

9/12 Taxpayer Tea Party March on Washington, DC

Contract From America
Sep 12, 2009 at 8:10 PM | Unregistered CommenterKen
James Ostrowski, a Buffalo libertarian activist had this to say at the LRC blog:

"I will avoid a crowd estimate but a friend of mine who was there today described it as enormous.

Here’s my take on the tea party movement so far. It’s been a successful coalition of conservatives and libertarians so far united by opposition to Obama and all his works. The sentiment in the nation right now is clearly anti-Obama.

The key point is, what is the tea party movement for? On that, there is no agreement and probably won’t be. If conservatives will repudiate eight years of Bushian big government, the coalition might persist. If not, the libertarians should very quickly go their own way lest they unwittingly lend their support to a restoration."

This sounds about right to me.
Sep 12, 2009 at 8:40 PM | Unregistered CommenterJames H
Hey, C4L (Campaign For Liberty) was there in force. That's awesome.

I haven't been active with C4L. What about the rest of you? I sometimes get the emails from them, but I had no idea there was going to be a giant freakin' march on DC today. I honestly don't listen to Glen Beck, but ... you'd think the MSM would have reported on it all week. No?
Sep 12, 2009 at 8:49 PM | Unregistered CommenterJames H
James H

Yes Brother, magnitude of the rally took me by surprise, I felt as the uprising has taken over Washington and felt the "DAWN OF NEW BEGINNING" The rally revealed majority protesting were first timer's in their life.They were fed up and hungry for new leaders who will govern per our constitution.I am convinced , the revolution has begun, people are awake and see crystal clear the corruption , loot and scams and angry at both parties. Great speakers from Cato Institute, Dr. Paul folks spoke too.......The demonstrators came from all corners of the country, waving American flags and handwritten signs explaining the root of their frustrations. Their anger stretched well beyond the health care legislation moving through Congress, with shouts of support for gun rights, lower taxes and a smaller government.In conversations with demonstrators, people identified themselves as Republicans, libertarians, independents and former Democrats.
Time for new leaders to emerge now as masses are ready to fire current corrupt breed in Washington .2010 will bring the change never witnessed before. OBAMA/BARNEY/REID/NANCY PELOSI must be shitting in their diapers next....

As Mr. Obama traveled to Minnesota on Saturday to rally support for his health care plan, he flew over the assembling crowd in Marine One. The helicopter could be seen flying overhead as the demonstrators marched down Pennsylvania Avenue.

Obama shill must be shocked at throngs of people streaming from the White House to Capitol Hill for more than three hours.

This is real, I am moved and more committed than ever to pledge my support with all means within my reach now.

Dear James

How do we keep this from becoming a gift to the hopelessly corrupt GOP leadership?

Answer: I see GOP split jumping on Liberty Bang Wagon, can not get into details but I can tell you many in Congress and Senate are scared of the OBAMA/BARNEY/PELOSI Gang thugs and I hope this rally feeds courage up their spines to switch to Liberty revolution band wagon.
Sep 13, 2009 at 12:47 AM | Unregistered CommenterKen
Sep 13, 2009 at 1:24 AM | Unregistered CommenterJames H
Fellow Americans

Sleepless and roaring, time to take on Media Shills. I am in shock that such a revolutionary protest is been ignored by ABC/CBS/GE=MSNMC/CNBC, CNN crooks.


In case you missed it (because of the Network News blackout)...2 MILLION TAXPAYING VOTERS descended upon their Capital and began the peaceful process to block this President from ignoring their will.

This President evacuated the city with his family, while his minions in the Propagandist Media attempted to do damage control, but the throngs were overwhelming.

Once they have spoken, these 2 MILLION will withdraw from the city and allow their leader to return, so that he can carry out their will. THE BIGGEST MISTAKE the leader COULD MAKE WOULD BE TO IGNORE THESE PEOPLE, it would surely lead to the end of his political career.

The Founding Fathers wrote this right [to redress government] into the Constitution to preclude the necessity of the people taking up arms over and over again, to correct their government.

I dare say those Blue Dog Dems understand even better than the leader, the implications of today's demonstration. They will surely end their political careers if they ignore this.

Dimocraps in the House passed the Stim-u-LESS Bill fiasco without reading it. Democraps passed the Cap and Tax and now want to pass a boondoggle HealthScareCare bill that will only add to the deficit and rival Medicare in fraud and abuse. I'd say it's already too late for many Dimocraps in many congressional districts - their re-election in 2010 is in serious jeopardy as we speak.

Sep 13, 2009 at 10:29 AM | Unregistered CommenterKen
Ha! I just finished reading the Daily Mail piece and was going to link it. Hey, if it rhymes with Daily Bail, it's probably alright.
Sep 13, 2009 at 10:54 AM | Unregistered CommenterJames H
September 12, 2009
The spark that has triggered rebellion

The first stirring of protest came with the Tea Parties in the spring. These gatherings were completely misread by a media that ignored them and dismissed the attendees as right wing kooks. The Tea Parties were about taxes, yes. But far more they were about the rapid intrusion of the federal government into private affairs, about deficit spending, and a growing understanding that America was heading down a very dangerous road.

People see a government in Washington that is in the process of destroying the constitutional principles of limited government and maximum personal freedom that made America the freest and most prosperous country the world has ever known.

James Madison, John Adams and Thomas Jefferson must be turning over in their graves at what is being done to the Republic they founded. At the close of Constitutional Convention in 1787, Benjamin Franklin said we gave you “a republic if you can keep it.” At the moment, keeping it does not look promising.

Our founding fathers had an incredible understanding of human nature, and of the natural tendency of governments to become oppressive. They gave us a unique Constitution that attempted to limit the power of government and ensure the rights of individuals. In 1798 Thomas Jefferson wrote, “In questions of power, then let no more be heard of confidence in man, but bind him down from mischief by the chains of the Constitution.”


Unless we take matters into our own hands, nothing is going to change.

If we just keeping marching with our pickets, the mass media and government will continue to dismiss us as ‘nuts’. and you know what? the people will believe them! same as its always been.

we need to march right on into the white house, pentagon, and capitol and throw these culprits in jail.

Until this happens, I'm sorry to say, but nothing, NOTHING is going to change.

or what I recommend:Civil disobedience ........Gandhi Style
civil disobedience

civil disobedience, refusal to obey a law or follow a policy believed to be unjust. Practitioners of civil disobediance basing their actions on moral right and usually employ the nonviolent technique of passive resistance in order to bring wider attention to the injustice. Risking punishment, such as violent retaliatory acts or imprisonment, they attempt to bring about changes in the law. In the modern era, civil disobedience has been used in such events as street demonstrations, marches, the occupying of buildings, and strikes and other forms of economic resistance.

The philosophy behind civil disobedience goes back to classical and biblical sources. Perhaps its most influential exposition can be found in Henry David Thoreau's On the Duty of Civil Disobedience (1849), in which he claims that the individual, who grants the state its power in the first place, must follow the dictates of conscience in opposing unjust laws. Thoreau's work had an enormous impact on Mohandas Gandhi and the techniques that he employed first to gain Indian rights in South Africa and later to win independence for India. Gandhi developed the notion of satyagraha [Sanskrit: holding to truth], acts of civil disobedience marked by Indian tradition and his own high moral standards and sense of self-discipline. Attracting a huge number of followers from the Indian public, Gandhi was able to use the technique as an effective political tool and play a key role in bringing about the British decision to end colonial rule of his homeland. His was one of the few relatively unqualified successes in the history of civil disobedience.

The philosophy and tactics of civil disobedience have been used by Quakers and other religious groups, the British labor movement, suffragists, feminists, adherents of prohibition, pacifists and other war resisters (see conscientious objector), supporters of the disabled, and a wide variety of other dissenters. In the United States, the most outstanding theoretician and practitioner of civil disobedience was civil-rights leader Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. During the 1950s and 60s he achieved international fame by leading numerous peaceful marches, boycotts, and sit-ins. Like Gandhi, he was jailed several times. The beatings, mass arrests, and even killings of civil-rights demonstrators pledged to nonviolent civil disobedience were important factors in swaying public opinion and in the ultimate passage of new civil-rights legislation (see integration). Civil disobedience in the United States traditionally has been associated with those on the left of the political spectrum, as were most participants in the anti–Vietnam War movement, but toward the end of the 20th cent. the strategy also began to be employed by those on the right, for example, by those involved in confrontational but nonviolent antiabortion activities.
Sep 13, 2009 at 11:02 AM | Unregistered CommenterKen
James H.

To your comments & WOW

“The undeniable truth: this is the first truly conservative,libertarians mass movement in American history. ”
These people could care less about the approval of the “moderate” Republicans. They will refuse to be co-opted by them. The Tea movement is comprised of mature and knowledgeable citizens—committed to the long run. These are not kids trying to have some fun playing radical revolutionary. They also mostly financially stable individuals able to purchase reading materials and donate to their favorite politicians. Oh yes, they are indeed a force to be reckoned with. None of them trust the MSM and other left-wing institutions. Their faith has instead been redirected to radio talk show hosts like Alex Jones, Glen Beck, Fox News, and Internet bloggers media. Red and purple elected officials fear them far more than they do Barack Obama. The president is no longer a major factor. He is a lame duck unable to do anything significant. Obama should consider resigning from office in the near future.
Not only are the Tea Party numbers the first truly conservative mass movement in American history; their movement marks the first time in our country’s history that a President has declared his own personal level all out war against the people of the United States of America.

Had Mr. Obama been wise he would have left the issues to their own level; each with it’s own energy, life and subsequent solutions that would have been acceptable to the majority of the people.

Instead, he arrogantly chose to move himself into the forefront of everything voters were upset about; illegal immigration, cap and trade, healthcare reform and so forth.

Then came his fatal mistake.

Obama issued the citizens of America ultimatums that in essence say, “How dare you underlings even question my authority and power, much less think that you can overcome or stop it!” and “You are going to do what I tell you to whether you like it or whether you don’t like it!”

No person, nor nation or group has ever challenged our entire country at once in this manner and lived to tell about it. Not the British, the Confederacy, the Japanese, Hitler, Stalin and extremist Islamic terrorists among many others.

Mr. Obama is going to loose.

and The phone has been ringing for some time. The prediction about morphing into a new party? Of course it will. Either the GOP will be taken over our it will disappear since it has almost nothing to attract vigorous support. The GOP mostly is a shell bouncing between Senators Graham, Snowe, McCain and the political elite.

Our President and his handlers see the world through the prism of identity politics. Many Americans view the country that came from the efforts of rugged individualists as better than where we are heading now. So, the groups that the President is not listening to and trying to shut down, have joined together through common beliefs and principles. And now the race is on, which will prevail?

Hooray for all the people who took the streets yesterday, hooray for America!

Join the ever-growing ranks of Independents now my fellow Americans


A Question for you James H.
There are tens of millions of us, it’s ridiculous we don’t have a party. What are your thoughts about this challenge?

The tea party protests are just getting warmed up. We need to continue the pressure and increase it. Yesterday was a significant expansion and extension of the protest. If I were a Democrat I would be very nervous. People are begining the process of removing them from power. November 2010 is going to be a wave election. The stalls are about to be cleaned out.

The President is being exposed for what he is, as is the liberal side of the Democrat Congress. Americans are not going to put up with socialism. To borrow a concept, “the problem with socialism is what do you do after you rum out of other peoples money?”
Sep 13, 2009 at 11:28 AM | Unregistered CommenterKen
"Had Mr. Obama been wise he would have left the issues to their own level; each with it’s own energy, life and subsequent solutions that would have been acceptable to the majority of the people.

Instead, he arrogantly chose to move himself into the forefront of everything voters were upset about; illegal immigration, cap and trade, healthcare reform and so forth."

Exactly. This is what I meant by the "Celebrity President from Hell" phenomenon. He (they) just won't freakin' leave me alone. From Bailouts to Stimulus to Healthcare -- we get all kinds of shit and all most of us wanted from Obama was Peace, Transparency and a better approach to Civil Liberties. Instead, we got all kinds of crap rammed down our throats even though we said STOP!
Sep 13, 2009 at 11:55 AM | Unregistered CommenterJames H
His Kim-Jong-iL moment with the kiddies the other day is just a symptom of it all -- the arrogance, the narcissism, the complete lack of concern for what others (parents) might want.

On another site, someone wrote today or yesterday that he was so grateful that Obama was as arrogant and aggressive as he is because had he been more "moderate" we would have just continued on the same trend we had been on for decades -- more central control, less freedom, more collectivism... etc.

My wife disliked Obama from the start and I couldn't figure out why (this is back when he was the "peace" candidate and Hillary was the crazy warmonger). I actually had some hope for his candidicy (as far as such hope goes), but my wife, who is really good at reading people, said he was an arrogant jerk and she didn't like him. Well, turns out she was right. By November of last year, we weere both on the same page and I kept telling her that maybe he will be so bad that people will turn to someone like a Ron Paul or just get fed up with politicians alltogether. Time will tell, but things are certainly trending that way.
Sep 13, 2009 at 12:06 PM | Unregistered CommenterJames H

My 2 cents: I think going 3rd party is a dead end. Far better to remain a "mob" that can determine which candidates when and lose, and far better to remain a clear and visible "threat". They can't defeat hundreds of thousands of people in the streets or in D.C., but they can defeat Tea Party candidates or whatever. I say don't fight a battle we can't afford to lose and which we are likely to lose. For 2010 it's important to be organized enough to make credible threats during the PRIMARIES -- that way we don't have to chose between bailout socialist #1 and bailout socialist #2 (see 2008 presidential election). I've heard from other people hwo have been active in this and they also say they will NOT be co-opted by the GOP. Let's make sure that's the case. That's the greatest danger at the moment, because the more the MSM ignores and belittles the protesters, the more likely it is that Boobus gets up off the couch and says HERE I AM.
Sep 13, 2009 at 12:52 PM | Unregistered CommenterJames H
JamesH, You should always trust your wife :) Obviously, she is an excellent judge of character!

Your question "How do we keep this from becoming a gift to the hopelessly corrupt GOP leadership?" hits the nail on the head. Although modern day tea parties were originally the brainchildren of C4L and the Ron Paul group (way back in the primaries), they have recently been used by a huge cross section of people, from conservatives to disillusioned democrats. Glenn Beck choose the date of this one and promoted it on his show. The emotion was completely organic, though. You can tell by the hand made made signs that these people are all expressing their individual thoughts. (Contrast this with manufactured 'counter demonstrations' where you see professionally made signage distributed throughout crowds.)

Libertarians are uncomfortable with Glenn Beck. He has a huge public presence (great) and professes to be a libertarian (good), but he definitely goes neocon when talking about certain issues, confusing the newly awakened public about what it means to be a libertarian. My personal advice to anyone interested in this movement--just check out campaignforliberty.com Keep it simple--the Constitution is not that long or difficult to read--and don't let any side group pull you away from the main message of sticking to our founding fathers' original idea of limited federal government. Frederick Bastiat's The Law is an excellent, easy to read (and very short) primer to all things libertarian.

Ken, You have great messages but I sometimes find the longs ones difficult to follow. This may just be my attention span, though. Thanks for the info.
Sep 13, 2009 at 2:05 PM | Unregistered CommenterSonic Ninja Kitty

but MOB must unite with common agenda and that agenda must be drafted and handed to the mob , so the MOB can scream at both party candidates with it, who ever supports it gets MOB's vote.

Examples: Term Limits, Poli-Tics should save for their retirements like all working people -eliminate their life time perks with one election service. Eliminate their health plans and force them to choose from same options we have.

Wall Street & Corporate compensation reform is urgency for our retirement savings future.

Federal Reserve must be dismantled

Zero Cost Corporate crooks compensation must be banned.
Stock Buy Back by Corporate Crooks must be banned instead dividend must be enforced.This is key weapon which has busted USA pensions.

Analyst Crooks must be separated from Institutional Crooks. Must be forced to buy any equity they pump and not let them sell before the targets these criminals bark.....................................
Sep 13, 2009 at 2:08 PM | Unregistered CommenterKen



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Sep 13, 2009 at 2:16 PM | Unregistered CommenterKen
Fiat Money a Tool for War to Kill Americans

China encourages Silver Bullion for investment

China owns over $1 trillion Dollars in U.S. Treasury and Agency Securities so China must be careful not to impair the value of those assets. Thus a key question is: to what extent is China a captive of The Fed-led Cartel’s Interventional Regime and how will this affect Precious Metals prices?
-- A.) Chinese state-owned companies could refuse to honor certain “losing” dark OTC commodities derivatives contracts. Rumor has it that it has already intentionally defaulted on some of these contracts, but Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan Chase and others who might know, are not telling.

-- B.) Hong Kong built a "state owned" gold vault, and announced that they will be taking physical delivery of their London Gold by December, 2009.

-- C.) Their central bank has increased gold holdings from 400 tonnes to over 1000 tonnes.

-- D.) They might stop exporting all "rare earth" metals. China produces 95% of the world's supply of rare earth metals, which are used in all sorts of high tech products, especially in electronics.

-- E.) They wanted their people to buy silver, because it's cheap.

The key point is that The Cartel’s Interventional Regime is under increasing pressure with consequent increased risk of financial system failure. This is probably explains the underlying cause of the intensifying systemic liquidity crisis of which John Williams, proprietor of shadowstats.com is seeing increasing signs.

Shadowstats.com calculates statistics the old-fashioned way they were calculated before the political gimmicking began to distort key Statistical Realities to hide Unpleasant Facts (e.g. the dramatic reduction in $U.S. Dollar purchasing power) from Investors world-wide.

Indeed, it is essential for Investors today to get the Real Numbers versus the gimmicked Official Statistics.

Consider, for example, the Official Statistics versus the Real Statistics courtesy of Shadowstats

Official Numbers vs. Real Numbers

Annual Consumer Price Inflation reported August 14, 2009
-3% 5.5% (annualized August Rate)

U.S. Unemployment reported September 4, 2009
9.5% 21.1%

U.S. GDP Annual Growth/Decline reported August 27, 2009
-3.9% -5.9%

Given that these yields have dived toward zero recently (i.e. since March 2009) the belief that the Equities market Rally is sustainable, is a delusion.
And even the U.S. Government admits to Grim Economic Realities. On September 9, 2009, it admitted “millions” more home foreclosures were coming.

Moreover, as if the challenges presented by the Cartel’s Interventional Regime, Grim Economic Realities, and Geopolitical pressures were not enough, the absence of a Fair and “level” playing field for investors increasingly threatens profits and protection
For capitalism to be evident on Wall Street, trading volume would have to return to near 1980 trading volume (down over 90%). This would wipe out the whole industry and probably bankrupt the country. We may need this to happen to end the banker takeover of the United States and the World. If we allow them to carry on printing money for themselves and slowly bankrupting the peoples, we will be slaves to the money printers.

Be aware of the overall Geopolitical Landscape in order to gain an adequate understanding of how that Landscape might affect the present and future direction of the Markets. It is essential that one understand the motivations of the major players in the market and the resources at their disposal.

For example, a Major Motivation of the U.S. Federal Reserve and other key Central Banks is the protection and enhancement of the legitimacy of their Treasury Securities and Fiat Currencies as Measures and Stores of Value. Therefore, one can understand that one of their Major Goals will be to attempt de-legitimize Gold, Silver and the Strategic Commodities, including especially Crude Oil, as Stores and Measures of Value. With this in mind, the periodic takedowns of Gold and Silver and, since July, 2008, of Crude Oil, become understandable

4 key underlying economic problems :

Unprecedented, massive amounts of existing and coming national debt – U.S. national debt has continued to increase and there is no sign of future debt letting up.
Foreign reluctance to fund U.S. debt – China, Russia, Brazil, etc continue to back away from U.S. Treasurys, diversify into other investments, and make moves toward trade in non-U.S. currency.
Declining productivity and indicators of poor future productivity – GDP has continued to fall and unemployment has continued to rise. Recent political action, reform currently on the table, and mounting taxation all point to future productivity damage.
Unprecedented, massive levels of money printing – The printing presses have been running non-stop and there’s no real sign of them letting up. Much of the recovery hype has stemmed from economic illusions caused by this temporary “fix”.

All of these factors have continued and mostly worsened since June. Each plays as significant a role as ever in the near- and long-term direction of the economy.
Outlining the near-term factors that could cause serious economic and societal problems in the coming months. The outline of factors is broken down as follows:
Current activities and conditions - Those activities and economic conditions that continue to be underway and could lead to additional economic problems in the near-term.
Scheduled near-term activities - Those activities that are scheduled to take place within this autumn or winter and could lead to economic harm.
Uncertain near-term activities - Those activities that could happen within this autumn or winter and could lead to economic harm.
Sep 13, 2009 at 3:05 PM | Unregistered CommenterKen
Goldman battling with NYC over police protection

My stomach turns when I read such articles. Goldman just forked out $2.4 billion of the taxpayers' money to build a shiny new headquarters and now they are whining about inadequate police protection, which, of course, would also be paid by the taxpayers. For being such dyed-in-the-wool capitalists, Goldman certainly knows how to make a pig of itself at the public trough.

From today's NY Post:

"Goldman Sachs, the wealthiest bank on Wall Street, is locked in a bitter battle with city and state officials over the number of cops available to patrol its gleaming new world headquarters at Ground Zero.

The bank is close to completing its $2.4 billion, 43-story skyscraper on Vesey Street in Battery Park City and says it will be ready to move in by the end of this year.

But the big move could be delayed as the city and state scale back an expensive security agreement with the bank. The squabble is dealing yet another blow to the redevelopment of Ground Zero -- and possibly putting taxpayers on the hook for $320 million if the Goldman-government accord collapses."

See link for rest of article:



Sep 13, 2009 at 3:13 PM | Unregistered CommenterKen
Are you guys excited about having "single-payer" healthcare in the U.S.? Think Obama has promised that's not his plan? Well, maybe we better think again. This is Lynn Woolsey (D-CA) on C-SPAN and she totally lets the cat out of the bag:

"We also felt that to get to single payer -- we're not supposed to say that, you know. We're not supposed to tell people...that, if we, you know, that the public option could be a step toward single payer... So we compromised."

The ONLY place I can find this is on Financial Sense News Hour. It's here under the Sept. 12, 2009 broadcast. It comes in the "3rd Hour with Jim and John" PART 1. They start talking about this at about 23:00 and the Woolsey clip is at 23:28.


Check it out, spread the word. This is devestating, in my view. Yep. What Joe Wilson said.
Sep 13, 2009 at 4:04 PM | Unregistered CommenterJames H
Oh yeah, John Loeffler also mentions at 24:20 that the cost estimates only go to 10 years out. BUT, for the first 3 years of that 10-year period, they don't plan on paying anything out, so the average cost is massively skewed. And AFTER ten years, there is a "sharp spike up."

Yeah, Joe Wilson was right.
Sep 13, 2009 at 4:06 PM | Unregistered CommenterJames H
WSJ has a chart of the cost picture. Grrrr.


(Maybe this was old news, but it's the first I heard of it -- and how is it going to not increase the deficit as the Tieless One keeps saying?)
Sep 13, 2009 at 4:17 PM | Unregistered CommenterJames H
James H.

TNT from china

Fed Reserve Ends before mid October Gold Backed System coming China nails 90% FALL COMING
Let's hope they take down not only GS, but JPM and the rest of the crooked banks as well.

9/12 Taxpayer Tea Party March on Washington, DC

Up to two million march to US Capitol to protest against Obama's spending in 'tea-party' demonstration

China to Probe Alleged ‘Dumping’ of U.S. Products (Update1)
Share | Email | Print | A A A

By Bloomberg News

Sept. 14 (Bloomberg) -- China announced a probe into the alleged dumping of American auto and chicken products, two days after U.S. President Barack Obama imposed tariffs on imports of tires from the Asian nation.

Chinese industries have complained that they’re being hurt by “unfair trade practices,” the nation’s Ministry of Commerce said on its Web site yesterday. The Beijing-based ministry is also looking into subsidies for the products, it said. It didn’t specify the imports’ value.

The European Central Bank said last week that rising protectionism may hamper world trade and undermine the global economy’s recovery from recession. The U.S. placed tariffs starting at 35 percent on $1.8 billion of tire imports from China, backing a United Steelworkers union complaint against the second-largest U.S. trading partner.

“While there’s friction, I suspect that the two nations will keep any disputes under control,” said David Cohen, an economist at Action Economics in Singapore. “They understand that they’re increasingly dependent as trading partners.”

Dumping is selling goods for less than the cost of producing them.

China’s commerce ministry said Sept. 12 that it “strongly opposes” the U.S. decision on tires and may refer the case to the World Trade Organization.

‘Retaliatory Spiral’

“A sluggish global recovery and rising unemployment may increasingly tempt governments to adopt restrictive trade policy measures, which could lead to a retaliatory spiral of ever harsher trade restrictions and tensions,” the Frankfurt-based ECB said in its monthly bulletin. A resurgence of trade protectionism would “significantly impair the global recovery process” and reduce growth potential in the long run, it said.

Yesterday’s three-paragraph statement from the Chinese commerce ministry didn’t refer to the tire dispute.

“China has always steadfastly opposed trade protectionism,” the ministry said, adding that the nation was “willing to continue acting in concert with other nations to promote a global economic recovery as soon as possible.”
Sep 13, 2009 at 5:26 PM | Unregistered CommenterKen
The real war to destroy Private Banker thugs, and China will do the job for us, I hope so

These Bankers thugs must be hanged "SADDAM STYLE" biggest terrorist on Planet Earth

Chinese to destroy Feds by refusing to honor fraudulent derivatives contracts

Still believe China doesn`t call the shots? If the "World" follows suite, where will we "borrow" the Billions to keep this house of Rats and Lice afloat...


Chinese to destroy Feds by refusing to honor
fraudulent derivatives contracts

[link to benjaminfulford.typepad.com]

The Chinese government has told Chinese companies they do not have to honor derivates and commodity futures contracts made with Western financial institutions.

[link to www.reuters.com]

This is one of the most important of many nails in the coffin for the soon to implode Federal Reserve Board. The Chinese have every right to renege on those contracts because they were fraudulent. First of all the Feds manipulated the commodities markets to their benefit and to the detriment of the Chinese. They also allowed 100 times leverage thus allowing for astronomical ponzi schemes to be set up. Furthermore, they almost certainly did not properly explain the risks when they made their deals with the Chinese. Now that their attempt to rip off the Chinese is blowing up in their faces, these financial institutions will implode. This will set off a chain of events that will make the Lehman Brothers implosion seem like a storm in a tea cup. The total amount of derivates contracts outstanding is now over $5000 trillion or 100 times world GDP. In other words it is just a giant illusion waiting to vanish along with the institutions that peddled it
Sep 13, 2009 at 5:31 PM | Unregistered CommenterKen
Great, now Barry Soetoro is going to start a trade war with China. Don't worry dailybail, you will find a reason not to post about this bad news. How are you doing with your leftist funding, any big fish yet? Keep up the good work and you will find your George Soros.

Sep 13, 2009 at 9:53 PM | Unregistered CommenterGobias Bluth
@ Ken

As you quoted:

"The first stirring of protest came with the Tea Parties in the spring. These gatherings were completely misread by a media that ignored them and dismissed the attendees as right wing kooks. The Tea Parties were about taxes, yes. But far more they were about the rapid intrusion of the federal government into private affairs, about deficit spending, and a growing understanding that America was heading down a very dangerous road."

My concern is that they only started this year, when they should have started years ago, when the patriot act, homeland security act, and no bid contracts in the war effort were going on. these things brought on huge government expansion and debt, and no one blinked.

I am still believing it is a GOP front because it did not start earlier.

Did you write the part about the philosophy behind civil disobedience yourself, because it is very good. I unfortunately am well versed on this subject.

@ James H

I believe your philosophy of the mob is correct, but I still believe the third party is the best. Because everyone in the primaries will already be bought.

Trust me on this, for I spent a few years (6) lobbying years ago. And spent more years than that protesting while the herd grazed on.

The herd is only motivated by fear, hunger, or thirst. These are the only things that stir the herd. Government controls with the manifesto and fear, so the herd will not awake till they become hungry or thirsty.
Sep 13, 2009 at 10:14 PM | Unregistered CommenterS. Gompers
"The herd is only motivated by fear, hunger, or thirst. These are the only things that stir the herd. Government controls with the manifesto and fear, so the herd will not awake till they become hungry or thirsty. "

S Gompers,

I'd say that's a good rule of thumb, but what motivates this Mob -- is it fear of govt (or of Obama)? Or is it that the Mob is no longer a part of the grazing Herd? After all, they got off their asses (many of them well padded) and hit the streets. It was a little different from Seattle, but they seemed pretty damn motivated by *something*. It still amazes me the number of people actually talking and thinking Revolution. Moreover, almost everyone is drawing historical parallels with our own revolutionary moment -- but not just as mere analogies. They're using these analogies as motivation, justification and as guides for future action. From what I know of revolutionary moments of the 17th and 18th centuries (my historical period of study), this is a sign that people are fucking serious. On that basis, I'm pretty damn excited, to say the least. Take that Daniel Shays analogy that people, including Larry Flynt and myself (LOL), have made in the last couple of months. Shays isn't exactly a household name like George Washington, but when people think of his rebellion it just clicks: His situation is like our situation -- peasants vs the money interests -- and what the hell are we going to do about it? I don't know Gompers, were the colonists merely hungry or fearful? What helped them become radicalized, even when they weren't suffering physical hardship?
Sep 14, 2009 at 12:06 AM | Unregistered CommenterJames H
It is rather funny that you two go on and on about the herd and the mob, very Nietzsche. How come you don’t talk about how Barry Soetoro is the major agitator of this so called herd or mob? It is not hunger or thirst that is the motivator Gomp, it is about protecting personal property and protecting the individual from the state/government. Please, go read this article…


Every time Barry makes another speech, he becomes more familiar to the majority. The media created Barry Soetoro as a character called Barack Obama. They sold him to the gullible with all the tact of a beer commercial or the cigarettes he smokes. Because of this indelible first impression, it will take some time for his devotees to understand that they have been duped. Opinion polls are showing that this is happening at a very fast pace. His constant hypocrisy and his ego are slowly turning the tides of support. He is now controlling his giggling interview persona but a weird grin is appearing in its place which is making us all uneasy. The herd or the mob has thousands of years of evolution to identify dangers by evaluating the behaviors in others. Soon, Barry will become even more desperate which is when he will raise his game and I hope that the American people are able to continue to expose him and see the forest for the trees.

Morality is the herd instinct of the individual. Nietzsche

I know you have trouble understanding Nietzsche but the above quote basically means that the wrongful behaviors of Obama are making us (the herd) uncomfortable. Maybe Nietzsche was referring to the social guilt of having to watch Obama lie his ass off and we are all feeling a growing responsibility to end the fraud he is perpetuating with his every breath and action. James, I don’t really understand your posts, I think Gomp is dragging you down. You seem pretty sharp, however, it is not radicalization it is quite the opposite. As Jefferson put it, it is the will of the people that is rising up to take back the government. God help us!

Free Speech, Free Gobias!
Sep 14, 2009 at 1:40 AM | Unregistered CommenterGobias Bluth
"How come you don’t talk about how Barry Soetoro is the major agitator of this so called herd or mob?"

"what motivates this Mob -- is it fear of govt (or of Obama)? " [check]
"however, it is not radicalization it is quite the opposite. As Jefferson put it, it is the will of the people that is rising up to take back the government."

Radicalization is contextual -- i.e radical in relation to what? For Sam Francis, asserting old-school middle-class mores was "radical" in the 1990's vis-a-vis left-wing movements that were hostile to those values. In a different context, burning bras and draft cards was "radical." What's your quibble with my use of "radical" above?

Otherwise, my point was that people were motivated enough to hit the streets, and they are inspired by and guided by the words and deeds of America's revolutionaries. That multiple people find inspiration in figures like Daniel Shays suggests they've taken this stuff to heart. They're livin' it. They're living and viewing this political moment, in part, through 18th-century lenses. They're not just talking about left and right or D's and R's. They're talking about natural rights, US vs. the government, regular folks vs. bankers, etc. The old political frameworks are clearly under stress. That's cool. That's surprising. It's good. Oh, and how do we keep the GOP from taking over the movvement? That's all.
Sep 14, 2009 at 2:38 AM | Unregistered CommenterJames H
"I'd say that's a good rule of thumb, but what motivates this Mob -- is it fear of govt (or of Obama)? Or is it that the Mob is no longer a part of the grazing Herd?"

James H

These are people waking up to reality, but I fear they have not found true direction yet, which makes them a target for the "wranglers" to get them back in line, nose to tail. As the manifesto dictates by infiltration or conspiracy.

The real danger is hunger or thirst, let millions of Americans start running out of unemployment, and you will see people take to the streets in a not so civil fashion. For only in Gobius's world should the masses lay down and starve for him.. This is after all our second jobless recovery in eight years.

THe colonists were hungry, only those in line with the King were granted entitlement and monopoly for their service. That is why we fought two wars with England over our sovereignity. The King was missing the loot. and had many agents still in America trying to destabilize our young government.

I do enjoy your posts, and have no trouble understanding them, as Gobius does.

dear Gobius,

You seem by your own admission, to have trouble understanding many posts, so you make up your own summation.

Don’t flatter yourself, I understand Nietzsche well.

In Daybreak Nietzsche begins his "Campaign against Morality" he calls himself an "immoralist" and harshly criticizes the prominent moral schemes of his day: Christianity, Kantianism, and utilitarianism. However, Nietzsche did not want to destroy morality, but rather to initiate a re-evaluation of the values of the Judeo-Christian world. He indicates his desire to bring about a new, more naturalistic source of value in the vital impulses of life itself.

In both these works, Nietzsche's genealogical account of the development of master- slave morality occupies a central place. Nietzsche presents master-morality as the original system of morality — perhaps best associated with Homeric Greece. Here, value arises as a contrast between good and bad, or between 'life-affirming' and 'life-denying': wealth, strength, health, and power (the sort of traits found in a Homeric hero) count as good; while bad is associated with the poor, weak, sick, and pathetic (the sort of traits conventionally associated with slaves in ancient times).

Slave-morality, in contrast, comes about as a reaction to master-morality. Nietzsche associates slave-morality with the Jewish and Christian traditions. Here, value emerges from the contrast between good and evil: good being associated with charity, piety, restraint, meekness, and subservience; evil seen in the cruel, selfish, wealthy, indulgent, and aggressive. Nietzsche sees slave-morality as an ingenious ploy among the slaves and the weak (such as the Jews and Christians dominated by Rome) to overturn the values of their masters and to gain power for themselves: justifying their situation, and at the same time fixing the broader society into a slave-like life.

Nietzsche saw the slave-morality as a social illness that has overtaken Europe — a derivative and resentful value which can only work by condemning others as evil. In Nietzsche's eyes, Christianity exists in a hypocritical state wherein people preach love and kindness but find their joy in condemning and punishing others for pursuing those ends which the slave-morality does not allow them to act upon publicly. Nietzsche calls for the strong in the world to break their self-imposed chains and assert their own power, health, and vitality upon the world.

Just one more example of your service to godless Socialist masters.

Your fixation with Barry being the only one responsible for everything that has occurred in the last 100 years is misplaced. And it is becoming almost sexual in a Freudian sort of way.

Politicians are the symptoms,

You are not the strong in this world, breaking your self-imposed chains and assert your own power, you are still the little boy crying for rescue on the riverbanks. No boats today.
Sep 14, 2009 at 7:06 AM | Unregistered CommenterS. Gompers

read this may help conclude your arguements

Their attitudes toward Obama himself are complicated. No one I met expressed hatred for the president. A few had voted for him, and others, like Christy Smith, said they were deeply moved when he was elected. Many others opposed him all along. But now, the predominant mood is deep distrust. They believe Obama will raise their taxes, that he will blow up the health care system, that he will weaken America's defenses.

And they wonder who he is as a person. "The company you keep tells a lot about who you are," says Tres Berden, a truck driver from Newark, New Jersey. "With all of those associations of his, from Rev. Wright to Van Jones -- you don't know those kind of people without being one." Berden, one of the few African-Americans in the crowd, is a Democrat who now considers himself a libertarian. He voted for Obama, but quickly became disillusioned. "He isn't the person he sold us," Berden says.

You've probably heard descriptions of the marchers as crazies and haters and fanatics. Perhaps there were some in the crowd. Far more important, though, was the very presence of so many everyday Americans protesting in Washington, just eight months into unified Democratic control of the White House and Congress. What did Barack Obama and his party's leadership on Capitol Hill do to bring doctors and truck drivers together in common cause on the streets of the nation's capital? More than anything, these people are afraid that the new president is running the country off a cliff. They're in no mood to remain silent now.
Sep 14, 2009 at 9:30 AM | Unregistered CommenterKen

Thousands pack downtown DC to protest spending
WASHINGTON – Thousands of people protesting what they call out-of-control government spending are marching to the U.S. Capitol in downtown Washington.

The line of protesters stretches several blocks, as people chant "enough, enough" and "We the People."

Others are waving U.S. flags and holding signs reading "Go Green Recycle Congress," "I'm Not Your ATM" and "Obamacare makes me sick."

Some men are dressed in colonial costumes with tri-colored hats.

Protesters plan to march later to the U.S. Capitol.

FreedomWorks Foundation, a conservative organization led by former House Majority Leader Dick Armey, organized several groups from across the country for what they're calling a "March on Washington."
Sep 14, 2009 at 10:41 AM | Unregistered CommenterSell Short
Here's some choice quotes from the Tieless One (annotated):

"Credit markets froze as banks refused to lend not only to families and businesses but to one another."

Congress -- almost all of them complete idiots -- still believes this is the reason for the BAILOUT. Even the idiots who sit on the Financial Services Committee.

"By opening and examining the books of large financial firms, we helped restore the availability of two things that had been in short supply: capital and confidence."

Everyone in that room probably knows that the "Stress Tests" were a complete sham (unemployment assumptions, losses on conforming loans, etc. -- completely contradicted by known facts AT THE TIME). Where were you, Joe Wilson?

"Just a few months ago, many experts from across the ideological spectrum feared that ensuring financial stability would require even more tax dollars. Instead, we’ve been able to eliminate a $250 billion reserve included in our budget because that fear has not been realized."

Call me crazy, but I think I missed the part where he talked about changing FAS 157 and letting the banks LIE about their assets -- and do you really think they're going to let Citi, et al. bring their SIV stuff back on balance sheet at the end of the year? HA HA HA.

"And if taxpayers ever have to step in again to prevent a second Great Depression, the financial industry will have to pay the taxpayer back – every cent."

You are bad, bad boys (and girls), Wall St., and if we ever have to steal from the taxpayer again to bail you out, we're going to make you -- stop your cryin' -- we're going to make you actually pay the taxpayer back. Really. No really, I mean it. Hey, no laughing in the back row!

Change We Can Believe In.
Sep 14, 2009 at 1:52 PM | Unregistered CommenterJames H
Joe Wilson was busy supping at the trough with everyone else, loved the quotes James H.
Sep 14, 2009 at 1:58 PM | Unregistered CommenterS. Gompers
Fellow Americans

No more debates , scam is crystal clear and only way out is organized revolt with civil disobiedience

Now or prepare for Civil unrest consumption, like it or not ..you will be consumed

Sep 14, 2009 at 2:33 PM | Unregistered CommenterKen


Here is the breaking news:GERMANY DUMPS US$ BONDS. Good Job Mr. president, World now has crystal clear view about FEDERAL RESERVE CRIMINAL TERRORISTS ponzi scam

Germany Sells $4 Billion of Three-Year Dollar Debt (Update1)
By Anchalee Worrachate and Esteban Duarte

Sept. 14 (Bloomberg) -- Germany sold $4 billion of bonds in its first dollar-denominated offering since 2005, according to a person familiar with the transaction.

The three-year issue broadens the nation’s sources of funding at a time when it’s seeking to raise a record amount of debt. The notes priced to yield 25 basis points below the benchmark mid-swap rate, according to another person familiar with the transaction who declined to be identified.

Sep 14, 2009 at 3:26 PM | Unregistered CommenterKen
Now why did Germany sell debt i US$'s????lol

Any brains here?

Germans too smart, and who bought it?lol
Sep 14, 2009 at 3:29 PM | Unregistered CommenterKen
Wake me up when Revolt is organized

America Destroyed By Wall Street Thugs (FEDERAL RESERVE BANKERS) blessed by our CRIMINAL RULERS

You are delusional, naive, or incredibly stupid (more likely all three) to believe we still reside in a Democracy, America is clearly a Plutocracy, controlled by big money, the executives of our largest financial institutions.

The majority of Americans no longer have a voice, instead they are indentured servants, forced to pay the outrageous salaries and bonuses of the very criminal element who are destroying our economy, our future, our once great country.

These low life scum, diseased with greed, with zero scruples and even less remorse who call themselves investment bankers and alike have infiltrated the highest levels of our government, treasury, federal reserve, so-called regulatory bodies.

Therefore insuring they are free from prosecution, insuring they will continue to be rewarded handsomely for failure and criminal activity, insuring this financial mafia will grow unobstructed in size and strength, free to carry on with the insane, unbridled financial engineering that will ultimately be our demise.

So prepare yourself for the collapse of our currency, an economy that will continue to shed jobs, a third world standard of living. By the time the reality of this travesty becomes apparent the thugs who raped America will be long gone, toting their treasure chest courtesy of the U.S. Taxpayer.

What will be left behind is a mountain of debt, higher taxes, a broken economy beyond repair, the end of America as we once knew it. The free market is dead and the severe consequences lie ahead.
Sep 14, 2009 at 4:32 PM | Unregistered CommenterKen

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